Lebanon & the Holocaust
My friend purgie sent me this article. It is an interesting perspective to look at things. I for one am against international forces be lined up on the borders. I rather the Lebanese army be at the borders…
“There are Holocaust survivors living in Israel. I don’t think they would feel good about German soldiers in South Lebanon, and certainly not if they had to take a stand against an Israeli soldier,” he said.
Posted by Rampurple |
I’m also against an international force at the border. But whether they’re German or Chinese is almost irrelevant to me.
What’s interesting is what you find at the conclusion of the article:
Joerg Himmelreich of the German Marshall Fund argues that the nightmare scenario is not, in fact, at all likely.
German troops would be much more likely to clash with Hezbollah than with Israeli forces, he says.
That would mean that the foreign troops would be dying to defend Israel.
Not only do I believe this is wrong, it indicates that the problem is not really going to be resolved this way.
I, too, would want to see Lebanon patrol their own border but not at the expense of Israel being Lebanon’s sucker again and again. Lebanon didn’t have what it took to do this for 6 years. Why is it going to be better the next time around?
July 27th, 2006 | #
Right. So let’s exterminate the Lebanese people? Let’s target systematically civilians? Let’s destroy block after block part of a city? Let’s practise collective punishement where a whole nation is held responsible for what has been done by an armed group? Let’s break the Geneva conventions? Let’s commit war crimes? Is it this that you really want to do? Think about that a little bit. Because this is exactly what you are doing now. And the whole international community is looking very precisely.
July 27th, 2006 | #
p4l says
Right. So let’s exterminate the Lebanese people?
That’s funny. I said “let’s see the Lebanese army do their job and maintain the security themselves.
But while we’re on the subject of extermination, this is Nasrallah’s proclaimed goal against Israel, not Israel’s proclaimed goal against Lebanon. That being said, I see no reason why a single Israeli has to die because of your people’s desire to exterminate us. War is a 2 way street.
Let’s target systematically civilians?
But Israel isn’t doing that. After something like 5000 aerial sorties and heavy ground operations, the number of Lebanese killed is in the 100s. Either the IAF has the lousiest pilots in the world or someone south of the border is being very sensitive - too sensitive in my opinion.
Let’s destroy block after block part of a city?
If the enemy that attacked us has facilities or personnel there? Sure!
Let’s practise collective punishement where a whole nation is held responsible for what has been done by an armed group?
If the shoe fits - and it does. You had six years to do something. Whine to Nasrallah.
Let’s break the Geneva conventions? Let’s commit war crimes? Is it this that you really want to do?
None broken. None committed. Unless, of course, you take Hizbalahs word that Israel used phosphrus and what not. We’re doing just fine with conventional weapons.
Did anyone tell you that crossing international borders, kidnapping soldiers and then denying them access to ICRC representatives are in fact all violations of the GC? Pffft. Why bother with details?!
Think about that a little bit. Because this is exactly what you are doing now. And the whole international community is looking very precisely.
Precisely like the buggers they’ve always looked and behaved like.
Want to stop the war? Lebanon could have years ago. They could have 2 weeks ago and every moment since then.
Don’t want to stop it? We’ll just keep on rolling. But remember, that’s your decision.
July 27th, 2006 | #
Avraham… death toll in Lebanon is in the 400s not 100s and wounded is over 1300.
Also, just want to make things clear… the Lebanese Army were not the ones patrolling the border for the last 6 years unfortunately.
July 27th, 2006 | #
Rampurple, in English, saying something is in the “100s” implies that it’s more than in the “10s” and less than in the “1000s”. I was not in any way attempting to trivialize the actual figures. I would have desribed Israel’s fatalities as in the “10s” just the same.
Regarding the southern border, I am very aware of the fact that the Lebanese Army was not patrolling the border all these years. I had no problems driving along Israel’s northernmost road and seeing the yellow HA flags, sometimes within distances of less than 100 meters.
July 27th, 2006 | #
my mistake… i misunderstood
July 27th, 2006 | #
hi rampurple, if the international force will bring us peace&quiet and will bring us closer to a period which lebanon and israel can prosper and leave their pain behind, so be it. there is nothing more important then living in peace together. take care
July 27th, 2006 | #
OT:
Rampurple, besides you main page’s code being broken, the links column that I see here to the right of the blog entry and comments is also not showing up on your main page anymore.
July 27th, 2006 | #
adi… we all want peace
avraham i am trying to work on it. i use firefox and it looks gr8 on it. i saw some issues on safari… still cant find the bug really… working on it.
also.. avraham… N10452 transtlated gebran tueni’s article… it s in the comments section
July 27th, 2006 | #
Avraham… i THINK i solved the issue with the page. Let me know how it is on your side.
July 27th, 2006 | #
Rampurple, looks good now!
July 27th, 2006 | #
wooooooooohooooooooooo
July 27th, 2006 | #
Now you messed it up again with too many oooooooo’s.
Just kidding.
July 27th, 2006 | #
The last book of the Chumash differs in tone and content than the previous books of the Chumash. Most of the book concerns itself with the final oration of Moshe. This oration is a combination of history and prophecy. Moshe reviews for Israel, especially for the new younger generation that did not live through the Egyptian experience of slavery and deliverance, the telling of the story is particularly necessary in order to place into context their own personal lives and the campaign to conquer the Land of Israel on which they are about to embark. But Moshe speaks not only to that generation. He peers down the long corridor of Jewish history and speaks to us as well.
He warns of the difficulties that settling the Land of Israel will bring to the Jewish people. He negates the idea that adopting the local culture, becoming part of the Middle East, will bring any peace, security or spiritual gain to the Jewish people. He senses that Israel will stray from the path of Torah to find for itself strange, new gods, attractive to the eye and politically correct to the mind. He thus accurately predicts that Israel will not be able to survive interminably as a national entity in the Land of Israel because of its rejection of Torah and its holy value system.
In Moshe’s words and tone, exile, dispersion and Jewish wandering become almost a foregone conclusion. Moshe’s warnings were not enough to forestall the eventual collapse of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah in First Temple times and of Judea in the Second Temple era. The predicted disasters occurred just as he predicted that they would.
But Moshe is not ready to give up on the Jewish people. And apparently neither is God, so to speak. Eventually, the Jewish people will come to their senses and forsake all of the foreign ideologies and cultures that have so badly served them. Moshe sees to “the end of days” when Israel is oppressed, isolated and in great difficulty, that there will be a process of return that will take place. There will be a return to the Land of Israel, a return to the God of Israel and the observance of His Torah, and a return to its own vision, values and destiny.
It is not clear whether this process of return is meant to be instantaneous or will take place gradually over time and generations. But Moshe assures us that this process of return is certain and that the entire lesson of the book of Dvarim is that this panorama of Jewish history is part of God’s will, so to speak, for Israel and the world.
Because of the importance of this subject matter and its relevance to our generation and times particularly, it behooves us to listen intently and concentrate on the words of Dvarim. As Moshe himself states in Dvarim “for it is no empty matter” this process of Jewish history and eventual return. The Torah comments upon our current situation. We will do well to hearken to its words and message during the coming weeks when Dvarim is read in the synagogue.
Shabat shalom.
Rabbi Berel Wein
July 28th, 2006 | #
rampurple! stop spoiling avraham, to hell with him if he cant open the site, he will probably kill a lebanese if he sees one if it means all the best for isreal, even if this lebanese is just a civilian ,even if it is you. avraham, up yours.
July 28th, 2006 | #
Hi Yaacov. I’m just as much a fan of Rabbi Wein as you are but what does this have to do directly with this blog entry’s topic and who do you think you’re addressing this to that would make it relevant?
Shabbat Shalom.
July 28th, 2006 | #
Jess… how am I spoling Avraham?
July 28th, 2006 | #
Rampurple says
Jess… how am I spoling Avraham?
By tolerating my smilies?
July 28th, 2006 | #
Iran’s President Ahmadinejad calls President Bush
Ahmadinejad calls Bush and tells him:
“President Bush, I called because I had a dream.”
“What was the dream about, Ahmadinejad?”
Ahmadinejad: “I dreamt that USA was rebuilt and on the top of
each house there was a flag.”
Bush: “And what was written on the flag?”
Ahmadinejad: “Allah is big, Allah is great!!!”
Bush: “You know what Ahmadinejad, it’s good that you called
because I had a dream too. In my dream Teheran was rebuilt and on
top of each building there was a flag too.”
Ahmadinejad: “What was written on the flags?”
Bush: “I don’t know, I can’t read Hebrew!!!!”
July 28th, 2006 | #
A german and a lebanese meet in Beirut.
German: ” How do you transport 10 Israeli prisoners in one car?”
Lebanese : ” We use a Mercedes Benz, big car: 5 in the trunk, 5 on the back seat”
German: “Oh we are more efficient, one in the trunk and the others in the ASH TRAY!!”
July 29th, 2006 | #
To Avraham,
Let me set the record strait:
Hassan Nasrallah’s aim is not to exterminate anyone.
He definely is against the zionist regime not the jewish people. Being against appartheid south Africa is not being against white south africans. Wiping out Nazi Germany does not mean exterminating germans…. You remark is so dishonest.
July 29th, 2006 | #
HEHE GREAT JOKE HANS!
July 29th, 2006 | #
So, Jess, you are now a self-admitted Nazi supporter. No surprise. Your admittance only goes to show that you and those like you deserve the same rain of fire that destroyed Nazi Germany.
Maybe some day Lebanon will be able to rebuild without people like you sending it into a loop of self-destruction.
Sam says
To Avraham,
Let me set the record strait:
Hassan Nasrallah’s aim is not to exterminate anyone.
“One of the central reasons for creating Hizbullah was to challenge the Zionist program in the region. Hizbullah still preserves this principle, and when an Egyptian journalist visited me after the liberation and asked me if the destruction of Israel and the liberation of Palestine and Jerusalem were Hizbullah’s goal, I replied: “That is the principal objective of Hizbullah, and it is no less sacred than our [ultimate] goal. The generation that lived through the creation of this entity is still alive. This generation watches documentaries and reads documents that show that the land conquered was called Palestine, not Israel.” We face an entity that conquered the land of another people, drove them out of their land, and committed horrendous massacres. As we see, this is an illegal state; it is a cancerous entity and the root of all the crises and wars and cannot be a factor in bringing about a true and just peace in this region. Therefore, we cannot acknowledge the existence of a state called Israel, not even far in the future, as some people have tried to suggest. Time does not cancel the legitimacy of the Palestinian claim.”
- Hassan Nasrallah, interview, Egyptian television, June 2, 2000
“If they [the Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them world wide.”
- Hassan Nasrallah, Lebanon’s Daily Star, October 22, 2002
“If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli.”
- Hassan Nasrallah, New Yorker magazine, Oct. 14, 2002
“Martyrdom operations - suicide bombings - should be exported outside Palestine. I encourage Palestinians to take suicide bombings worldwide. Don’t be shy about it.”
- Hassan Nasrallah, Washington Times, Dec. 6, 2002
“Just like Hitler fought the Jews, we are a great Islamic nation of jihad, and we too should fight the Jews and burn them.”
- Hisham Shamas, political science student, symposium hosted and broadcast by Hizballah’s Al-Manar TV, at Lebanon’s Université Libanaise, November 29, 2005
For the 3 decades, this has been the position stated by every leader of Hizbullah, and it has not changed.
Once again, who are you trying to fool?
July 30th, 2006 | #
funny how avraham and daniel put in a disappearing act once confronted, some people only gave a limited amount of stuff to say, and then back off once cornered
July 30th, 2006 | #
Avraham,
Nasrallah on countless occasions affirmed clearly that he didn’t have anything against the jews but only against the zionist ideology. And these are things he said live on tv that I PERSONNALY heard him say not fabrications written in the New-Yorker and Washington Post (I didn’t know american magazines make interviews with Hassan is this a joke?)
One of the prisoners in Israeli jails, Nsim Nesser is Jewish he comes from the same village as Hassan in southern Lebanon. Hassan Nasrallah knew him personnaly as a kid and said he will do anything to free him, anything!!! 700 000 Lebanese are displaced and hundreds of Lebanese died because we care about our rights we will not give them up under any circumstance. Come on Avraham my cousin we don’t hate you because you’re jewish and never will: stop this crap! All we want is to let the people go to their homes. I know you don’t trust anybody after what the germans and others did to the jews , but we are not responsible for other people’s massacre. You had a dream about a Jewish homeland but it is becoming a nightmare for both jews and non jews. We can not build the future based on fears. You have to surpass your fear. The only solution is to live together with the same rights. Peace comes only with justice, all the weapons in the world will not bring you security only justice and respect will. Let’s build a better world today!
July 30th, 2006 | #